Alignment, Appreciation and Achievement – with Julie Arora
Julie Arora’s philosophy is that strategy can only get you so far, after that it’s down to the universe. Having decided that he wanted to achieve more but work less, Andy contracted Julie to help him to re-frame his mindset to learn how to follow the flow and align himself better with the universe – with amazing results! By learning how to appreciate the world and follow our feelings we can grow organically and grasp the opportunities that the world throws at us.
In This Interview You’ll Learn...
- 02:30 Why it’s a good thing to leave life as a chess board and become a Jedi
- 09:50 Why the process of personal growth is about subtracting, not adding
- 14:16 Why it doesn’t make sense to be cynical
- 20:30 Resistance vs non-resistance
- 25:15 Some examples of how alignment and flow worked for Julie and Andy
- 36:30 How to get started in re-framing the mind
- 44:44 The difference between gratitude and appreciation
Starting from Nothing – The Foundation Podcast
Guest Name Interview – Julie Arora
Introduction: Welcome to Starting from Nothing – The Foundation Podcast, the place
where incredible entrepreneur show you how they built their businesses
entirely from scratch before they knew what the heck they were doing.
Now, here’s your host, Andy Drish.
Andy: Welcome everyone to another episode of Starting from Nothing, the
Foundation podcast. Today we’ve got a special, special treat for you.
Four weeks ago I did an interview with Peter Shallard, and on that interview
we talked about this whole idea of manifestation. One person that we both
worked with in particular who has helped us really reframe our mindset
when it comes to creating stuff in the world; whether it’s a business, or
relationship, or getting in shape, it doesn’t really matter.
So for this episode, I asked you guys on that call if you would like me to bring
this person on the call and I’ve got a resounding yes. I don’t know how many
dozens of emails I got about this. So I’m bringing Julie on the call.
Julie, welcome to the show.
Julie: Thanks for having me, Andy. It’s exciting to be here.
Andy: So Julie Arora, did I say that right?
Julie: Yes, you said it right.
Julie and I, we’ve been working together over a year now. I hired her last
March, March in 2013; so like 14 months or so. The shifts that I’ve seen from
working with Julie are absolutely profound. I went from being very strategic
and always thinking about work and almost looking at life as a giant
chessboard of trying to position things and move things and control pretty
much everything in my life. To being way more relaxed, way more in flow.
What’s interesting is that even, Julie, even when I say that, there’s like this
element of like, “Oh, way more in flow, like way more feminine, or not
working as hard” or whatever. It is not working as hard. And at the same time
getting more results than ever with less effort than ever.
So Dane and I have been talking a lot about the concept of alignment versus
strategy and how to align with your deepest purpose and your deepest
passions and your deepest truths. That’s what we’re going to be talking about
Julie, let’s just like go back and tell us a little bit about you and how you got
started. Well, first tell us what the work is because I don’t even … we talk
about like manifesting, we talk about being a coach and none of that actually
rings true. You work with people very selectively. I know you get turned off
by the word coach. Tell me a little bit about what it is that you do because I’m
not even sure if I know how to describe you yet.
Julie: Sure, which is funny after working for …
Andy: Fourteen months.
Julie: Fourteen months together. [Unclear 00:02:59] definition around what I do.
So as you mentioned Andy, and your mindset around life as a chessboard,
you come by that view very honestly. In fact we all do and that’s sort of how
we’ve been cultured. When you’re a little kid, in order to please your parents
you have to behave a certain way, you have to be good at school, you have to
do all of these things and it’s very much when this than that, when this than
that. Everything that we do together really removes all the “when this than
that’s” really. And I like to frame it as you are a Jedi and there is a force.
This whole concept of manifesting or coaching someone into being
something different, all I’m doing -- and you’ve experience this now for 14
months -- is we’re taking things away. All of these constructs that you’ve
been taught that are not innately yours. It’s sort of suicidal constructs. You’re
supposed to be happy after you do really well in school, get into another
really good school, get another good job, get married, have children. There’s
all these hoops we’re supposed to jump through. It’s when this happens then
I’ll experience that. And all we’ve done is we’ve removed the construct.
The reason it feels like you’re in flow and things are coming to you at a pace
that they’ve never done before or in the last 14 months something is
different, is because -- what is different is you’re now allowing. You’re not
having to figure out what you want, how to get it, and then trying to
strategize and network and work your way into all of this. This, as far as I’m
concerned, is your birth right.
Andy: I love the analogy of you are a Jedi and there is a force because what I’ve
experienced, and we talked on the Peter [unclear 00:04:54], we told we’d
bring Julie on and we’d go a little deep down the rabbit hole so this will be
the beginning jump.
What I’ve experienced is that everything that I thought about how the world
works is wrong, and everything that I thought I knew about how to make
stuff happen and how to create stuff in the world like a business or a
relationship or whatever, is wrong. There’s actually a whole different
experience and there’s a whole other -- I don’t know, realm or what that you
can tap into.
You’ve all felt it. You felt it that time when you’re driving to the grocery store
and the car backs out right in front, and you get the parking spot right up
front. If you’ve ever had an experience where you have like two or three of
those situations that happen over the span of like a day or two, you’re like,
“Whoa! What’s going on? Life is just awesome right now.”
What Julie has been teaching me is how to actually create that on a day-today
basis. Like at the beginning, I remember feeling like I’ve had that
experience but it doesn’t -- I can’t cultivate it, it just kind of comes and goes,
and I’m just at the mercy of it. But it’s that flow state where things just
naturally happen for you is something that you can create on a day-to-day,
moment by moment basis which I think is really neat.
Julie: I think you nailed it just then, Andy, when you said “Everything I thought
about how the world works was wrong.” It’s because these thoughts have
enlarged -- too large [unclear 00:06:20] they’ve been placed in your mind. It’s
okay, Andy. If you do this, this and this it will equal this. However, we all have
these feelings and we’ve been taught to disregard them.
So a lot of our work together is about finding your own intuitive sense and
trusting it again. We built around what is your feeling as oppose to what is
your thought. Thoughts are just -- even beliefs are just a thought you think
over and over and over. A feeling is your guidance system; a feeling is telling
you where you are relative to where you want to be.
Like you said, sometimes you pull in and you’re just on fire and look, the spot
opens up at the grocery store. And I know you and I have talked about this
but the folks listening, how many of you have walked into a room and you
feel really drawn to someone? You know that experience, Andy?
Julie: Where you walk into your room and you’re totally repulsed by someone.
Julie: Or you know people who are working [unclear 00:07:19]. Like just non-stop
working and they’re going nowhere, and then other people don’t seem to
work much at all and they’re getting everywhere. What about the experience
of thinking of someone and having them call you? Do you know that weird
feeling that you can hear someone, or rather you feel someone staring at
Andy: It’s all that like that different element. It’s like it’s a different realm, it’s a
different experience and you can almost -- it’s almost weird to talk about,
right? People don’t really talk about it a lot because it sounds kind of far out.
But what I’ve realized is that there’s truth to it and when you listen to it, good
things happen. Almost always.
Julie: Right. And we all have it but very few of us have been cultured to really listen
to it. The work you and I have done together is not about me adding things,
Julie: It’s really about taking things away and really reaching into the depths of
your own being to know what you want. Because you as a soul, and I know
this is a business call, but the reality is we’re all souls, right? Certainly we’re
this body and we can try and deny it all we want and strategize all we want,
but ultimately we are physical beings that have some sort of desire and
different people have different desires. This work allows for that.
For me -- I know you asked how I came to it. I was having the same
experience as you’re. For 14 years now I’ve been an entrepreneur and it was
unpredictable when I’d be able to recreate them. Sometimes I’d be on fire
and things would go really well, and other times no matter what I did it just
wasn’t enough and I wasn’t able to move things forward.
What we’re playing with on a weekly basis is getting into that feeling state
and keeping the momentum going with it. So it’s just the practice …
Andy: What’s that?
Julie: It’s just practicing.
Julie: It’s like any other practice. A meditation practice, a yoga practice; it’s just a
practice. It’s tuning in to this innate thing that we have anyway.
Andy: A major shift happened for my life, pretty close to the context of working
with you, where I realize that the process of personal growth is not a process
of addition, it’s a process of subtraction. I spent so long going to like all the
weekend events, and went through all the Tony Robbins courses, the
landmark stuff, and all of these different like personal growth,
transformational seminars. And eventually realized that it isn’t about adding
more stuff, it’s not about adding new strategies or tactics or new beliefs, it’s
about getting rid of the stuff that doesn’t serve you.
So I grew up in a town of 600 people in Iowa and at 14 -- Julie knows all these
because we’ve talked about it a lot. At 14 I started working with my dad
doing construction, and he started having me like run a shovel pretty much,
to teach me that I don’t want to run a shovel through the rest of my life so
that I’d value education. And it worked but it created this, like, work-reallyhard
mentality in me.
Do you remember why I first signed up with you Julie?
Julie: I remember what the catalyst was. I know it’s after we spoke, wasn’t it?
Andy: It was something around making more things happen and working less or
something like that.
Julie: Ah, okay. No, no, no. You wanted to monetize more and work less, wasn’t it?
Andy: Yeah. Totally. Totally, totally.
Julie: Felt like money was harder to …
Andy: To come by. Yeah.
What I’ve realized is that all of those beliefs around “work is hard, work is
effort, it’s always going to be this way” were just instilled in me at a really,
really young age. Since stepping back you begin to realize that actually work
is -- like it’s not about work. You want to have the experience that I want to
have with work is the experience that when you’re like seven years old and
you’re on the playground playing tag with people and you have fun playing
tag because tag is just fun to play. And work can be the exact same way. Like
building a company can be the exact same way. Not all the time. It’s not
meant to be all the time. But the majority of it, I would say, it’s possible.
Yeah, go ahead.
Julie: I would say also, Andy, this framework of “I’ll be happy when my company is
built. I’ll be happy when it’s earning X amount of revenue” is, again, sort of
the issue that we come across with how people are cultured to believe we
should feel. We’re taught over and over again. Delay that sense of happy.
Ultimately -- if you can enjoy the process and not fear whether or not it’s
going to come to you. I mean that’s really when we’re unhappy, right, is
when we doubt. Like, “Oh God, is this even going to work?” As oppose to just
being present with the process.
I’m finding so interesting over the last -- I was raised with Eastern tradition so
with the mediation practice, with Yoga practice, with all of these things --
who knew that meditation and yoga would be the practice of the affluent 15
years later. It’s shocking to me that 15 years ago when my mom had a yoga
studio in our home people would come there, and there wasn’t a yoga studio
on every corner. These practices, this wisdom is thousands of years old. We
just kind of lost it somewhere along the way. Right? So it’s, “Okay Andy, work
really hard” and then if you earn it you get to be happy. I just don’t think
that’s why we’re here.
Andy: So let me put my cynical hat on for a moment.
It was so funny, Peter Shallard introduced me to Julie and Peter is one of the
most cynical people I know. And so for him to get excited about this type of
work I was like, “Whoa! There’s got to be something here.”
If you’re listening right now and you’re thinking, “No way,” that was my
experience at the beginning. I did a coaching call with Julie and it took like
three more months before I actually signed up with her. And I signed up with
her because I … no joking, the middle of the night I woke up from a dream
and it was like, “You need to hire Julie,” and I called her the next morning and
we started working together -- which was just weird.
So if you’re listening and you’re like, “No way!” If work’s just play, nothing’s
ever going to get done. I’m not going to be productive and work’s not meant
to be play. If work is just play how is anything ever going to get done?
So Julie, talk to the people who -- or me a year ago -- the cynical people that
are like it just doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t seem to make sense. And it’s
one of those things it’s not for everyone but if they’re thinking that, help
them through it a little bit.
Julie: Okay. If your framework is work is work and fun is fun, or how on Earth am I
supposed to have fun while doing work because I’ll just never get anything
done. How I started to play with it myself. I guess I really -- I can empathize
with this as [unclear 00:14:45]. I come from an East Indian background.
Though we have these amazing yoga and meditation type traditions, there’s
also extraordinary work ethic.
I don’t know what the tiger mom equivalent is but I had one. Two sisters who
are both physicians, one’s done … They both sub specialize. At the end of the
day school and structure were really, really important to my family, and there
was the same work ethic that you’re talking about with your dad and there’s
nothing wrong with that. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. So I sort of
want to release the resistance around the idea that work is terrible and how
could you possibly dedicate your life to working hard.
All we’re saying is if you’re not finding it deeply satisfying, I believe life’s
meant to be satisfying. So however you feel satisfied, use that. So that’s sort
of for start.
I started to play with this for myself because there would be days, again, as
an entrepreneur working from home I had a line of cereal across Canada.
We’re talking like seven ingredients per box, three types of packaging per
box. I had a lot of moving parts with my business. It wasn’t online, it wasn’t --
Not to say online businesses don’t have new imparts but I meant physically
shipping product across the country, it’s kind of a pain.
Andy: It’s a different ball game.
Julie: It is a different ball game and it’s very involved. And it’s mundane, tedious
involved in a lot of cases.
For me what was interesting was I started to indulge things like I’d wake up in
the morning and be like all I want is a fuzzy blanket to watch some mindless
bubblegum TV show and eat ice cream. Instead of stopping myself from
doing it I did it. I absolutely like, “Okay, what else would you like, honey?”
Sort of taking care of myself the way I would a small child. How to pacify this
little girl within me that’s just been driven to the brink of like crazy because
of this crazy business and I had investment capital and all sorts of other
things that I was managing. And I started to play gentle, loving games with
What I found most often, and I know you found this as well, was offering
yourself permission actually dissolves the resistance. You get on with it and
you get on with it in this really empowered, passionate way because you’re
not denying something and saying, “When this is done then you can go play.”
It’s like, “Okay, let’s go play now if that’s what you desire.” “Oh, you want to
work? Okay, let’s go work now.” It’s funny because we don’t trust ourselves
but this is the process of building trust, right? [Unclear 00:17:14] have that
Andy: Totally. It was so interesting I remember just starting off with this and you
would have me -- Like even taking an afternoon off week or something like
that was a really, really big deal.
Julie: It was a half hour the first time.
Andy: Yeah. (Laughs)
Julie: It wasn’t an afternoon off.
Julie: In fourteen months, a lot changes.
Andy: You’re totally right. It was like these little things and it was so hard, it was so
difficult for me to just let go. And just so you know, I just spent the last --
before this -- I spent like 30 minutes playing video games just cause it felt
What’s interesting is you’re so right. I remember going through the process
and not trusting myself because I thought that if -- It’s like if I’m going to go
play for 30 minutes, I’m going to play for the rest of the week. And I’m not
ever going to want to do work and I’m just going to want to -- I’m just going
to want to play forever. Or I’m just going to want to sit around and play video
games all day.
But the truth is that’s not what happens. You get bored of that really quickly
and it’s -- but you can enjoy the experience of it for what it is and then let it
go and be on with it.
Julie: Absolutely. It’s like dieting, food diets. Anyone out there who’s dieted, when
you cut stuff out, like I love saying I’m going to be sugar-free, the first thing I
do is eat a giant bowl of ice cream. It’s in denial. There’s so much desire. So
it’s pushing up against …
So this is sort of the other distinction that I think we need to make is this
philosophy is very much oriented around what do you want, not what you
don’t want. As a society we’re cultured, again, to say, “Well, I don’t want this
and I don’t want this. I don’t want to be lazy. I don’t want to work really hard
and not make enough money. I don’t want to be sick.” So we keep focusing
on what we don’t want which is actually creating resistance instead of just
focusing on what we do want.
When I’m dieting -- I use that very loosely, I’ve never actually been on a diet
in my life -- but when I want to cut down on sugar there’s this desire for sugar
suddenly. And so it’s the same thing with, you know, when I get this done
then I’ll go play. You’re pushing against it and you can’t get it done and you’re
not playing so you’re in this purgatory.
Andy: It’s the same thing with like wanting to make money. It’s like, “Oh, I want to
make money,” and then all of a sudden what’s being communicated almost
unconsciously is that there’s not enough money.
Andy: And so then you end up repelling offers that would actually come to you. You
don’t attract the offers that would naturally come.
Andy: My roommate and I were literally talking about this last week. He took the
entire week off last week, Julie. I was talking with him and he’s like … He
started a business and has been doing well and he’s like, “Yeah, I don’t even
know what I enjoy anymore.” I was like, “Dude, stop everything right now.
Take the week off not doing anything.” We were talking last night and he’s
like, “It’s so funny that …”
He worked for us, Daniel. He did our affiliate marketing and helped create
The Foundation products. In January he decided he’s going to run his own
company and not work for other people. And he’s like, “It’s so funny when
you tell people you’re running your own business, instantly they want to hire
you.” And he doesn’t even want it now, but before that was a really hard
thing to get.
Julie: Right. Right. Again, it’s the place of resistance versus non-resistance. It’s
really … Ultimately, the work that you and I have done is generally -- and all
we focus on is what you do want. And that’s sort of what I think most people
have backwards also is I spent a lot of time as a business owner knowing
what I didn’t want. But if you had to make a list of what you do want -- It’s a
hard list to make at first, isn’t it?
Andy: Dude, it really is.
One thing that’s really stuck with me that Julie taught me at one point was
most entrepreneurs don’t expand their business not because they’re not
capable or because they don’t have the talent or skills or whatever. It’s
because they don’t have the creativity to know what they would do if their
business was that big.
Remember when we had the exercise of you have to spend a thousand
dollars every day and that thousand dollars doubles, so a thousand dollars,
then two, then four, then eight, then 16, then 32. You can’t invest it, you
can’t pay off debt – you assume that it’s all paid off. You can’t give it away to
charity, you actually have to spend it. And this was one of the hardest
exercises I’ve ever done. Like I got to like 32 grand and I was like, “I don’t
know what to do now.” It was really difficult and it’s so interesting to see how
that actually comes up.
Julie: You come by it honestly, we all do. We were raised with scarcity to a large
degree. I don’t care how affluent you were. There was either scarcity of time,
scarcity of money, scarcity of health -- some sort of scarcity and we tend to
react to that. It’s the reptilian part of us that looks for like, “uh-oh, what
could go wrong?” And all we’re doing and all we’ve been doing is tuning into
really what could go amazingly right? And what I found time and time again
now working with many, many people on this is what you can imagine would
go right is a fraction of what actually does go right. When you allow for that
to show up, right?
For me I had this profound desire to move to the states. I had lived here for
about a year straight out of university. I had built up this food business in
Canada, I was growing quite disenchanted with it, and I put out into the
universe I need a really amazing business reason to move to the states. It
wasn’t love that was going to bring me, it had business. I was like, “I don’t
even know where to start. Go universe.” I said it not as this calm sort of
happy person but someone who is on my knees really pissed off and
Funny enough, I met Russell Simmons, and within five minutes he asked me
to partner with him. Pretty clear business reason to move to the states.
Andy: If somebody doesn’t know who Russell Simmons is, can you let them know?
Just in case.
Julie: I didn’t actually know who he was when I met him. I just loved his philosophy.
Russell built up Def Jam Records; sort of the urban African-American culture.
He made suburban and he has many vertical [unclear 00:23:35] business. He
sold Def Jam and he went into fashion. So Baby Phat, Phat Farm, all these
brands. Argyleculture, he has RushCard. We partnered to create something
called Rush Foods, so super foods. He owns Global Grind.
He’s just this epic, epic man who started his career on the streets in Queens
really and was putting his brother’s band to run DMC and he built this up
from nothing. He’s been a profound teacher for me in a lot of ways because
he lives this. He has an idea and he runs with it.
Andy: Can you share the story too about the Dragons’ Den episode?
The reason I’m asking for these stories is because it’s that whole idea of give
people what they want and then tell them what they need. And I think some
of you, if you’re listening, it might not be that concrete for you yet. You might
be listening and you might be confused. And if you’re confused it’s really,
really good sign because confusion means that your old belief patterns aren’t
working anymore, they’re being challenged, and you’re actually considering a
different way of looking at the world.
I just want to share these examples because -- like at the end of the day I’m
still very, I don’t know, considered like logical and it has to make sense and
like there has to be results in my life. Yeah. I just want people to have a taste
of the experiences that you’ve had from the stuff.
Julie: So I’m with you too, Andy. Actually I’m the daughter of an engineer. My
sisters are both scientists for all intents and purposes as medical doctors. So
for me woo-woo stuff never really cut it. On the couch, lie back in pink fuzzy
slippers, imagine that the world’s a better place, and manifested stuff I don’t
agree with because I do believe that inspired action needs to be taken.
Julie: And I don’t think no matter how often and how much you think, I’m going to
be rich and run the jack handy sort of affirmations and doggone it people like
them. The reality is there has to be alignment with that. You can’t just call it
out and say it. You actually have to feel it.
I wanted to challenge some of my belief systems, one of which was that
money was somehow attached to work which -- Again, as an entrepreneur,
you correlate the two. But it’s not always reasonable to correlate the two
because I’ve met a lot of entrepreneurs that in startup phases were not
paying themselves anything and then a mountain of cash came in later.
I just didn’t want to have to work hard for money anymore, or to work for
money. In fact I wanted money to flow and I wanted to challenge this belief
system. Again, I didn’t have like a coach with this stuff. I was just playing with
my own mindset because I started to notice, depending on how I was feeling,
certain results were coming in.
For me I went on Dragons’ Den as a PR move more than anything. In Canada
it’s the equivalent of Shark Tank in the US, and it’s one of the most popular
shows on TV. I did this knowing that if nothing else people would find my
breakfast cereal in shelves and buy it which was great because then they’d
have more of a story as to why I made it. I turned down a deal on Dragons’
Den because it just didn’t seem like a reasonable offer for what I wanted and
didn’t think anything up again.
Apparently that season, and it was just one season, a bank called Scotiabank
had actually decided that for that season the viewers would be asked to be
the dragon and the deal that should have been done that wasn’t done, that
company would be awarded a price of some sort, and the viewer would be
awarded a price like randomly out of who picked.
I get a call one day, and I had literally on a Saturday been telling a friend,
“That’s it. I’m no longer going to couple money with effort. I’m just going to
take that out of my head,” and he said “How are you going to do that?” And
this is a very successful businessman and he was kind of mocking me. He’s
like, “How are you going to do that Julie? How do you plan on making
money?” Because I was in startup phases with Russell with the food company
at that point and I stopped drawing salary for my breakfast cereal. I said, “I
don’t know. You know how it works for me, money just falls out of the sky.”
And literally 24 hours later -- actually 48 hours later -- I got a call from the
station that the show is on and they said “Congratulations! You’d be the
Dragon contest,” and I had no idea what it was. Apparently everyone else
was accessing their social media and pumping it out like “Vote for us. Vote
for us.” And, again, not knowing that -- I just didn’t know what it was. I didn’t
really tune into. And they said “You’ve won $50,000.” I had to actually call
back the next day and say, “You said $5,000 right?” Who wins $50,000?
Julie: I was partnered with Russell at the time and I went into the office and I was
like, “Hey, I won $50,000.” And this is a man who -- billion dollar company
and go “Who wins $50,000? That’s crazy!” So we went out and celebrate. But
it was so bizarre because in my heart, I decided to do this. And low and
behold, that showed up.
Another much smaller example of this was I was on my way to Southeast
Asia, to Cambodia in fact, and I was delusional enough to think South Korea
would be warm because it was South Korea. Geography is not my strong suit.
And so we had a layover for about 11 hours and wanted to go for dinner or
for lunch. I looked out the window and there’s a snow storm and I had
basically a t-shirt like this on and everyone else had a coat with them.
My fiancé looked at me and he was like, “We’ll just buy one from the
airport.” I turned him down because it was just Burberry and I didn’t really
like anything in there and it wasn’t like -- It was $1,000 spent one way or
another and I wasn’t particularly interested. And I said, “Don’t worry.
Something will work out.” He was like, “Yeah, what’s going to work out is I’m
going to end up giving you my coat.”
We went through security. We had landed and hung out in the lounge for a
while, showered up, had like a little snack and left. And so the airport was
empty, like a ghost airport. I’ve never seen a more empty airport. We left
immigration and the three of them walked by this sort of -- it was a white
coat lying on a white marble floor and I picked it up and I said, “Oh, I guess
here’s my coat.” And all three of the people I was with: my fiancé and his
friend and his girlfriend, just turned around and they were like “What the --?
Where did you get that?” I said, “Well, it was just there and I asked for a
coat.” No one could wrap their brains around it.
I picked it up. Very often when you’re traveling you put ID in the pockets or
whatever, the only thing in these pockets, and in an abandoned airport,
literally not another soul in it. No flight had landed for about three hours, was
a pair of gloves. My hands are really big for girl’s hands, the gloves fit
perfectly, and that was it. That’s sort of how this works. It sounds absolutely
Andy: Totally. I get it too. It’s interesting seeing it happen more and more often in
my life. That’s what I find really interesting.
Julie: What would you say your biggest experience with this has been Andy?
Because you did start off skeptical so I’m kind of curious about.
Andy: Oh man. Like we are talking this morning. I’m seeing it weekly now. Like an
example, I want to start writing more like just creative writing, and if I’m
going to do that I wanted to have somebody just on my website in a cool
way. Lately I’ve been getting into art and I hate working with designers
because I don’t know how to design stuff and I don’t know how to get
feedback well because I don’t actually know what I like or what I don’t like. I
can point this stuff and be like “I like this. I don’t like this.”
Last week, one of my friends, his name’s [unclear 00:32:04], reached out to
me. He does incredible art. He’s like, “Hey, I’m looking for people to build
websites for or any branding clients and I was wondering if you know of
anyone.” I just spent like the week before cracking my head. I’m like “Man,
who is a good designer? Who can I hire who actually gets this?” We had our
first call yesterday. It’s one of those things like who knows, we’ll see what
happens. Maybe something will, maybe something won’t, but it seems pretty
So we’ve been talking a lot about this. Dane in April, he went to Mike
Hrostoski’s Conference for Men. We had just been talking about, again, hiring
a copywriter and a split testing person. We’ve been talking about it for a
month or so. It’s so hard to find copywriters and to find a copywriter who’s
good, who’s actually aligned with what you believe in is even harder, it seems
And then at one point, Mike brought four people up on stage -- Dane was one
of them. Mike’s like, “Hey, here’s four world-class people I know,” and it was
Dane a marketer, and Andrew a copywriter, and Nikki a developer, and the
last person, a split testing person. We ended up hiring the copywriter and the
split testing person. Nikki is just one of our really good friends. Stuff like that
to get in and invited to different things that I never thought we would get
We’ve been looking at Integrative Nutrition forever. It’s like a $40 million
company that has a model that we would like to follow and grow into at
some point. We joined the mastermind and the first morning of the
mastermind I look across from me and the person sitting across from me is
Joshua Rosenthal, the founder of Integrative Nutrition. It’s just little things
like that and I …
But ultimately, aside from all of those little things, I’m just happier and work
is fun and playful again. I think that’s the most exciting part. That it’s not
work, it’s not stressful, it is at times, and it all kind of ebbs and flows but
overall in my life, I’m just way more like excited and I feel much more like a
kid than before. That’s how I feel.
Julie: Which is incredible because ultimately … The reason you came to me was to
just make more money, right?
Andy: Totally. And work less.
Julie: Right, and work less. I guess the most profound things you’ve said to me on a
call is, “Oh my God! This is what all of life is about isn’t it?”
Julie: And I would call this sort of the winning philosophy on life. What’s our metric
for how great our lives are is ultimately how happy are we because you can
stack all of these things. You can have the nice car and the hot women and
the -- just keep stacking it. But ultimately what do you really want? What
does everything you do lead back to?
Andy: I want to ask you about this. Because happiness for me, it’s not necessarily
always happiness that I’m after.
Andy: But it’s a sense of like it’s all okay.
Andy: There’s an experience I had with my girlfriend, Libby, in April where I felt like
a lot of shame and sadness. Even in that I felt like held and taken care of. And
that was kind of the experience of no matter if it’s going to be super high or
super low, because we’re entrepreneurs. Like hell. It’s going to be a roller
coaster and we’re going to have like the ups and downs and we’re going to
experience pretty much every emotion life has to offer for us. But it’s
underneath all of that knowing that it’s all going to work out and that we’re
all just been taken care of along the way.
Julie: And that’s to me the greatest support that we can ever have as human beings
is that sense of -- we’re held in a very different way. And ultimately it’s trust,
right? When you’re playing life as a chessboard, it’s you. It starts with you, it
ends with you. And everyone is just either a pawn or a king or … Whatever
you’re doing is you’re isolating yourself and it’s you against the world to a
Julie: What this does is it reminds you of your connection to something so much
more profound which is every other living being.
Andy: Let’s talk about how do people get started in this. So if they’re listening and
they’re like “Okay, this sounds interesting. I could experiment with this.”
What’s something people could do to just get started and play a little bit?
Julie: So I think the first thing that anyone can do, whether you even want to play
with this, whether you’ve outright rejected it and you’re just listening to
Andy and I to [unclear 00:36:53] in the background. If you can stop for a
moment and realize that your feelings are your guiding system and honor
them as that instead of trying to push away certain feelings and embrace
other feelings, in that comes a great deal of peace.
If that’s all you do from now on or it’s like, “Oh, I feel like shit,” okay, so I feel
like shit. As oppose to, “No, I don’t want to feel like this. I don’t want to …”
and start squirming against it or resisting it but just [unclear 00:37:22]
yourself to be wherever you’re at. That would be profound.
The next step of that, especially if you’re an entrepreneur or desire to be an
entrepreneur, is know that you’re never going to get it done. Life is a process.
Done means dead.
Julie: So just know, as you said Andy just a few minutes ago, this is about -- Life has
a series of ups and downs. It’s part of the fun of it. It’s part of experiencing
the absolute love and open heartedness that you can feel when you meet
someone new and you’re interested in them either romantically or --
whatever it is. That opening heart feeling is the direct contrast to your heart
breaking at the end of a relationship. But this is what life is made of. It’s all
this juice. I think what’s happening right now is there’s a culture of killing it,
crushing it, getting it done.
Andy: Oh, I got it.
Julie: It’s like oh my God! How much are you going to kill and crush and why would
you want to? Why not just enjoy this process? And I’m not …
The reason I so badly dislike being called a coach -- and I think I might have to
stop resisting that because that seems to be how people understand what
I’m doing -- is I kind of rejected this in a lot of ways at first, you know? It was
kind of like, “No, just give me the easy answer. Give me the way of fixing
stuff. Give me the way …” But this is the problem with this self-help space is
that you’re not broken. Nothing wrong with you -- absolutely nothing. So if
nothing else, take that home, right? There’s nothing to fix here. This is life.
This is your experience of it.
If you have this context if I’m somehow deeply flawed, I promise you you’re
going to see more and more reasons why you’re flawed. But if you can just be
like, “You know what? I’m the sum of my environment, I’m a product of my
environment, and I honor that. Sometimes I’m in a great mood and
sometimes I’m a raging bitch.”
Andy: It’s all okay.
Julie: It’s all good. It’s not just okay, it’s part of you. It’s what makes you you. So
show off that.
Andy: I just want to reiterate the point because this was -- When we started
working together we are deep in teaching all of the stuff around limiting
beliefs and like understanding all of that. I remember eventually feeling like
God! This is never going to end. I’m always going to have these limiting
beliefs and I’m always going to be a broken human. The reframe of like there
is nothing wrong with you and that everything is perfect is so true and my
entire body just like relaxes when you say that, Julie. I just want to reiterate
that point because I think especially in this …
Charlie Hoehn and I, he helped Tim Ferriss launch the 4-Hour Body and the 4-
Hour Chef. We were hanging out last weekend in the mountains of Colorado
and we were just joking about like when you get in to the self-help world,
everyone’s talking about how you’re broken and how there’s stuff wrong and
there’s limiting beliefs holding you back and you’re not living up your
potential. Eventually we just want to be like “Fuck it, let’s go play. Let’s just
go have fun again” and that’s it. I’m so glad you brought this point up.
Julie: It’s funny, Andy, because if nothing else, if that’s all people walk away from
this call with.
Julie: That’s it.
Andy: It’s worth it.
Julie: That’s the key to it, right? If you get over the fact that there’s -- Again, you
were taught this from such a young age and you learned energy before you
learned words. As a baby you decided this pleases mom and dad and this
Julie: Before you even had the word.
So this whole lifetime you’ve spent trying to mold yourself into something
that’s about everyone else approving of you and, all this process does is it
says what matters the most is how I feel about me and what matters second
to that is how I feel about others. How they feel about me is irrelevant to my
process because I choose my energy, I choose the feelings I want to
experience. And this is what I love about this is ultimately it’s up to you. You
get to create your life however you wish. And so that’s sort of the start point.
The next really conscious thing that I would ask people to do, and this is
something I do ask my clients to do, is start tracking what you can appreciate
all day every day, right? You remember.
Andy: I’m just going to say this. I was going to say this as a -- if you’re just getting
started. I’ve spent a lot of money with Julie in the past year.
Julie: Yes. Yes, [unclear 00:42:04].
Andy: It’s so worth it. Like tens of thousands. It’s been worth every penny. Literally
the one thing we’re going to share with you in a moment is hands down the
most effective piece that she has given me throughout all of it. Throughout
everything that she’s taught me, this is the one thing that is the highest
leverage, I think, that you can do. And if you want to experiment with this,
and play with it, and see just what might happen, is I would love to issue a
challenge to you or an opportunity for you, whichever way you want to take
it. And for the next ten days, before you go to bed, have a little journal beside
your bed. It could be a pen and paper, that’s it. But make sure you’re writing
it with your hand.
Julie: Not …
Andy: What’s that?
Julie: Not typing.
Andy: Not typing. Yeah. There’s actually a scientific proof that when you write it, it
reaches like a different depth of neurons, or it reaches more neurons in your
brain or something. Dan Sullivan taught it to us, why he writes down
Have a journal by your bed, and before you go to bed just write down three
to five to ten things that you appreciate about the day. And the big
distinction Julie gave me was, you know, we talk a lot about gratitude and I
was going over gratitude and when I had a gratitude journal, I don’t know if
you remember this Julie, but I was looking for big things. I was looking for
like, “Oh, we got this win,” or like “this thing happened” and it was all tied to
results and progress; which in itself has some like weird little unconscious
element of scarcity to it.
Julie: That’s correct, completely correct Andy, and I want to sort of make sure that
everyone understands. The distinction between gratitude and appreciation is
gratitude is -- I’m really grateful, for example, my fiancé had surgery last
week. I’m really grateful his surgery went well. Which you can hear, or feel
this element of, it possibly couldn’t have gone well.
Julie: Right? So I’m bringing in the vibration of what I don’t want. I appreciate my
amazing health when I have no illness is very different. Or I appreciate the
way the light bounces off the leaves on the tree. I appreciate this call that
you’ve put together for us to chat about, the things we love to chat about.
Andy: Yes! I’m glad you’re dialing that in. Because this was one of the huge
distinctions I had because everybody talks about like gratitude journals and
stuff but at some level, it actually perpetuates the idea that there isn’t
enough and it perpetuates the scarcity mindset.
Please, please, if you’re going to do this, email me. Email me like right now
and let me know that you’re going to, and then in ten days email me again
and let me know what happened. Because I think the shifts that you will see
will be profound.
So it’s funny, when I started doing this, the shifts happened really, really
quickly. Like everything starts feeling really good and light and easy. It
activates your … what is it? Your Reticular Activating System? It’s like when
you want to buy a car and you’re shopping for cars, and then all of a sudden
you see that one car all the time. When you start doing appreciations and you
just start appreciating things in the moment like the lighting in this room or
how this mic is picking up the voice so well, or the fact that we can video talk
when you’re in New York and I’m in Colorado. You started thinking
unconsciously all of these things that you appreciate throughout the day. And
then you begin to attract more of it.
Julie: And if you see that in people as well. I’m in New York so I ride the subway
and I go into a lot of places with a lot of people, and I’m consciously looking
for things I can appreciate. Even if it’s like the heel on someone’s shoe, or the
color of their lipstick, or their [unclear 00:45:47], or the guy behind the
counter the way the efficiency that he has from taking people’s money; the
more you look for it the more the universe goes, “Oh, you want more of that?
Here you go. Here you go. Here you go.”
And so the other sort of distinction I want to make, and when you email Andy
in ten days, just notice the general feeling of your life and then also what’s
flowing into it. And it doesn’t have to actually be related to what you’re
Andy: Say that part again.
Julie: So what shows up in ten days, just notice and stay curious about what shows
up. Because I remember when you first started doing this Andy, you weren’t
necessarily correlating some of the big stuff that was coming in. And it took a
few months to sort of tune into “Wow! Okay, in this energy it’s unlocking
something for me.” It’s not like, “Oh, I’m going to appreciate the guy behind
the counter and then he’s going to give me a free pickle.”
Julie: It’s not transactional in nature; it’s getting into a certain energy and a certain
flow. Just notice in your life if you pick up energy and flow on this kind of
speed dialed into this type of energy.
Andy: Totally. And you’ll see both. Like you’ll see things that happened to you and
then things that you actually do for others or what I’ve started noticing …
My friend, we went and race go-karts a week ago, he used to be a semi
professional motocross rider, and he was talking about how he was looking
to buying a 350 dirt bike and he just really wants to go riding this weekend
because it’s so beautiful. And this is the first time we had hung out in a year
and we had met once before that.
And I was like, “Oh, yeah, dude. I have a 350. You can borrow mine if you
want.” Instantly he was like, “Oh my God! I just manifested a dirt bike for this
weekend,” and he was so happy like a 40-year old or 35-year old dude just
like a kid again.
Yeah. You’ll see that it’s not one for one, it’s not this for that, it’s not a
transactional thing. It’s just a state of being and the experiences flow into
your life and they flow out and there’s this really neat rhythm to it.
The other thing I wanted to touch on, Julie, was doing this -- This is actually
something Libby and I will do if we’re really -- Libby is my girlfriend. If we’re
really disconnected or in a bad space and just kind of annoying each other,
we’ll go on a hike and we’ll do appreciations for each other. It will be like,
“Ah, I really love it when …” and we’ll talk about the little things. Like I love it
when you come home and like bring me a green juice. Little things like this
that normally we don’t take the time to recognize.
And what happens is it creates like a three-day hangover effect where it’s like
the next three days you begin to notice all of the little things your partner is
doing for you. And then you call it out and it’s just like a spiral upward. It just
gets better and better.
Julie: And that’s just it Andy. The fact that you’re able to go for a hike together and
call things out to one another is powerful and that shows your connection.
There’s been points where -- like I’m now engaged to my fiancé. He’s done
stuff where I’m like, oh, I couldn’t possibly appreciate anything directly to
him so I’ll go and I’ll write in my notebook. I appreciate that I didn’t punch
him; just all the things that run through my mind. And then get into a flow of
-- Actually, you know, I really appreciate that he always takes care of this for
me and does that. So it’s okay to sort of start and it can be hard to start. You
don’t have to actually say it to the person. It’s getting into the momentum of
it and not sort of power of everything really.
I think what’s amazing about this work is our ability to tune into --
Appreciation is sort of a doorway. It’s not what we’re trying to do, it’s the
gateway that it unlocks; if that makes any sense. So this is such an easy
exercise of being able to get into a flow, a state where anything is possible.
And again, for those of you who are skeptical, try it.
Julie: There’s something that works better than this.
Andy: So what you’re just saying, it’s an access point to that feeling of flow? It’s not
actually about the thing. This is a really big thing that Julie taught me too. It’s
not actually about doing the appreciations, or having the vision board, or
having the goals which people talk about so much. It’s never about the tactic,
it’s always about the energy behind it.
Andy: So it’s like, are you cultivating that feeling of appreciation and gratitude and
like love and flow, or are you just doing it because it’s on your list of things to
do before you go to bed? And I’ve gotten to funks of that where I just do my
appreciations but I’m doing my appreciations from a space of like, “God, I
have to check this off my list. I have to do it before I go to bed,” and then it
Julie: And that’s just it. Again, that’s the thought versus the feeling, right?
Julie: How to get this done is the thought. We’re looking at the feeling which is
where -- Again it’s gentle and sometimes Andy doesn’t feel like doing his
appreciations and so we honor that.
Andy: Yeah. Sometimes you don’t.
Julie: Yeah. And that’s cool too.
What’s interesting about it is it’s not in any way disciplinarian, however, it’s …
I often say this to my clients and this is sort of what I cultivated for myself
was do you have the discipline to be free? And what that really means to me
is we put all of this energy into networking and marketing and all of these
external things. I prefer to put the energy into -- or the effort into cultivating
the correct energy. So I’m not saying don’t work and that you’re -- everything
just kind of hits flow and you don’t have to do anything. It will naturally do
that. But we’ve got so many points of resistance that we have to work
through and so do you have the discipline to be free around that? Do you
have the discipline to --
I’m going to give you an example. Yesterday I was at the DMV for three-anda-half
hours and this is after spending five hours in the morning waiting to
see if I’d have to go into three-and-a-half week trial for jury duty. So you can
imagine it’s like administrative hell, especially as an entrepreneur.
Andy: Yeah, we just hate all of that.
Julie: It’s like, “Oh, [unclear 00:52:05] and alcohol.”
And so I go to the DMV. Three-and-a-half hours later, I get called up and I’m
registering a motorcycle and I don’t have my fiancé’s drivers license with me.
I thought any drivers license would work. When I went in and showed them
the forms they said, “Yeah, you’ve got everything you need.” I said, “Well,
he’ll just take a picture and he’ll send it over to me, you just need a
photocopy anyway, right? Can’t you just photocopy my phone?” and they
wouldn’t do it. I was livid.
Three-and-a-half hours and I said to the supervisor I was like “This is
absolutely ridiculous. I can’t believe sort of this is my experience of you guys.
Have the common sense to just photocopy my phone,” and she wouldn’t do
it. And I had a choice in that moment. I could go off the deep end and just be
really angry, or I could choose to decide not to get so engaged in the process.
I got to tell you, it was a battle. I left there, I was fuming. I felt like one of
these cartoon characters a smoke coming out of my brain.
Julie: I walked real fast. As I walked I like pounded the pavement with my feet and I
muttered to myself. I muttered a lot of things I can’t probably say on this call.
And it was interesting because by the time I got on the subway, so about
seven minute later, I decided to start looking for things I could appreciate. I
started to say -- like some old lady, the way she was looking at this baby, and
I just appreciated the fact that life was engaging itself. It was that esoteric, I
guess, where it was kind of like super old lady, super new baby. It was one of
those moments of like, “I’m going to just tune in to what’s going on around
me and get back to presence.
This is the discipline to be free. It’s can you guide your energy to where you
want it to be? Or are you always a victim to where you spin off of?
Julie: Because if that’s the case then you’re constantly going to react. And from
emotion, that’s where we create our lives. So if you can start to guide
yourself into this place of positive expectation.
Okay, first thought you have when you wake up. Mine used to be “Uhhh”
cause I’d wake up a bit late. I used to go to bed at three in the morning, I was
a late night entrepreneur, and I’d wake up at like 8 o’clock, 9 o’clock and be
like, “Oh shit!” I’ve got this whole day ahead of me and I can’t believe I …
That was the first thought.
Observe yourself for a few weeks. Just notice your first and last thoughts and
plug in the appreciation first thing in the morning when you wake up. I’m
really looking forward to an amazing day. And every night before you go to
bed and the momentum that you build from this discipline. If you want to put
in work, you want to put in energy, put it in here because the payoffs, as you
know, Andy, are exponential.
Andy: Are huge.
I love what you said about the discipline to be free part because if you don’t
have that discipline you are a slave to your emotions. And you will bounce
from experience to experience having no control over your own experience
at all. You’ll always be at the beck and call of everyone else and to me that’s
very terrifying thought and not a fun one.
Julie: No, and that’s what we tend to do is we tend to hand our power out. What’s
funny to me is so often it takes a near death type experience or an illness for
people to wake up. So we get caught in this posturing. “Oh look, I’m so great
and …” Especially like, I grab my head when I say this because you and I have
spoken about this so many times, but sort of the Facebook highlight reel that
people are running constantly.
Julie: It’s this sort of empty comparison competing and no one’s -- I shouldn’t say
no one but so many people are not -- Just kind of going, “Okay, how do I feel
in this moment? Am I posting this because I feel like I’m not enough? Or am I
posting it because I want to share a really rich …”
Andy: Because I feel inspired. Totally.
Julie: And if your action comes from not enoughness, you’ll get more not
enoughness back. And if your action comes from inspiration, as you know
Andy: You’ll get much more of it.
Andy: Julie, so awesome.
If you’re listening shoot me an email and just let me know what you thought
of this. We’ve been changing directions on the podcast and bringing -- we’re
still going to bring some interviews with people just getting their businesses
started but we’re taking it to a much deeper level. And some of that’s really
hitting and some of it won’t and I’m curious where this lands for you.
So shoot me an email, email@example.com, and just let me know what
you thought of this. Just put Julie in the subject line or something. Let me
know your experience and if you’re going to try this like ten-day experiment
to see if it’s something fun for you to try because I think --
I’ve heard the advice over and over and over and over and over ever since I
watched the secret of keeping a gratitude journal and it took Julie coming
into my life for me to do it. It’s something I do at least a couple of nights a
week at this point and I do it whenever I’m in a negative space. Do that and
email me. Let me know how it goes and what happens.
And Julie, if people want to get in touch with you or have questions for you or
want to reach out to you, where can they do that?
Julie: So juliearora.com. I’ve created actually …
So as you know Andy, I’ve been working one-on-one and as you mentioned,
tens of thousands of dollars have been spent. I work with folks who are
across the board and very often I’m working with people who were deep
skeptics about this stuff. In fact one of my clients very recently, his last call
that he made before he went into a $300 million deal was to call me. And it’s
because strategy can only take you so far and ultimately …
This was someone who is pretty resistant to the work when I started to work
with him about a year ago and it’s amazing now to see that -- Ultimately
strategy gets you only so far. An alignment is really where it’s at as far as I’m
concerned. So how he wanted to get his head into the game was to have an
hour call with me before he went in. So this stuff works on really, really highlevel
negotiation and it works on someone who’s just getting started.
So what I’ve done now is I’ve created a program where -- It’s a group
program for folks who are sort of in a position where finances are of concern
to them. We work together as a small group and you learn from one another.
There’s a group call with it. And then I also work of course one-on-one with
As you mentioned, I’m a little bit selective with whom I work with because I
actually do have other businesses that I run currently. This is my passion, this
is what I love to do, this is what I think about all day. As I’ve mentioned to
you a hundred times, it’s never work to me in such [unclear 00:59:03].
Andy: So a little secret I think I’ve kind of use in my life. Generally the coaches I hire
are not coaches. They’re either business owners or people who are taking me
on just kind of on the side. And they tend to be the best because they’re
actually in it. You understand what it’s like to build an entire health food
company; we’re just building a software company. You get it. You have the
emotional experience. Just a little thought to leave you guys with.
Julie, thank you so much. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for sharing all
of these stories. Thank you for everything over the past 14 months.
Julie: It’s truly been my pleasure, Andy. And I’m grateful for this opportunity,
appreciative rather of this opportunity. It’s been really cool. And you’ve been
so generous with sharing me.
Andy was someone who actually sort of built my coaching practice for all of
you folks listening. You had great results which was amazing because he’d
really engage the work. We peeled back all of the stuff that was holding him
back and he continues to just be extraordinary with how he shows up and has
referred many, many people to me.
Andy: Last option being, if you guys are listening. If you listen to the Peter Shallard
interview, if you haven’t I highly, highly recommend it. Just
thefoundationpodcast.com, look for Peter’s.
And if you listen to that one and this one and love them, let me know and
we’ll bring Peter and Julie back at some point. We’ll go really deep with this
because Peter is a fun dude to talk with this stuff about. Yeah, awesome.
Thank you guys, thank you Julie.
Closing: Thank you for joining us. We’ve taken this interview and created a custom
action guide so you know exactly what action steps to take to grow your
business. Just head over to thefoundationpodcast.com to download it for
free. Thanks for listening and we’ll see you next week.