Perry Marshall Interview - How He Built His Empire From Nothing

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The ebola virus helped Perry create his most powerful product. What? Yeah... I know... listen in to find out how. Perry is one of the highest paid marketing geniuses of all time. This is an episode you'll want to listen to every word of.  In this Perry Marshall interview, he shares more than he ever has.

Tweet: "The ultimate poverty is poverty of imagination" - @PerryMarshall new episode with @TheFoundationHQ

Tweet: "Pain is a really good teacher if you look in the mirror instead of medicating" - @PerryMarshall w/ @TheFoundationHQ


Show Notes



Podcast transcript:

Starting from Nothing – The Foundation Podcast
Perry Marshall Interview –
Introduction: Welcome to Starting from Nothing – The Foundation Podcast, the place
where incredible entrepreneur show you how they built their businesses
entirely from scratch before they knew what the heck they were doing.
Dane: In today’s episode of Starting from Nothing, we’re introducing and
interviewing one of my favorite business mentors and idols of all time, Perry
Marshall. I milked this guy for every possible minute we could. Interview is
supposed to go an hour; I think it went an hour and thirty one minutes. I just
kept going and going to the point where he told me he had to leave the
interview. We get as much of the good stuff out of him as you possibly can.
Perry is the author of many bestselling books “80 20 Sales and Marketing”
and “The Ultimate Guide to Google Ad Words.”
I don’t really ask him anything about those books because you can go read
about those books to learn about that. Instead, we learned about Perry the
man and Perry the person from the four kids he has to the two he’s adopted.
To how he shows up in the world, how we incorporates faith in his business,
how he used the E-bola virus concept to make his most popular product on
Ad Words. Listen in and enjoy this podcast today.
Welcome everyone to another edition of Starting from Nothing, I am your
hopeful host Dane Maxwell and I am beyond excited—probably the most
excited I’ve ever been to ever do an interview in the history of interviews
because I am talking to a business legend in my opinion. I am talking to the
one and only Perry Marshall. Perry, what’s up?
Perry: Hey, it’s great to be here and really like your avatar trying to do some serious
good in the world here. We’re both talking to the right person on the right
day here. I’m excited about that. Thanks for having me.
Dane: You’re welcome, thanks for saying yes to this. It feels really divinely aligned
and inspired—I randomly sent an e-mail to your staff somehow. I actually—I
couldn’t find your e-mail so I just put it into Gmail and I put in your first name
at your domain .com hoping it would find you and here we are. For those of
you wondering how to find e-mail addresses, there are other ways like
making them up for example.
Perry: It can work?
Dane: It can work. Perry, I want to reach your bio. I want to give you a proper
introduction and proper thank you before we start today so I’m going to start
with your bio. Perry Marshall’s one of the world’s most expensive and sought
after marketing consultants which is why I sneakily got you on a podcast
because I knew I wouldn’t have to pay for this, Perry. Numerous clients have
engaged his services continuously for ten years. He’s launched two evolutions
in sales and marketing. In paper clip advertising, he pioneered many of
today’s best practices and wrote the world’s best-selling internet book on
advertising—“The Ultimate Guide to Google Ad Words.”
He’s also driven 80 20 principle deeper than any other author, creating a
surge of interest as many recognize 80 20 as a law of nature. 80 20’s an
essential lever for nearly any profitable strategy in sales, marketing and
business. His book “80 20 Sales and Marketing” is required reading in many
going companies. It’s behind my bed over here as well. Beyond that, Perry, I
just want to say that I want to talk as little as I can so we can get your genius
here but I want to give you a proper intro and credit here. You were the
reason—I might get a little emotional here—that I get to sit here and
interview you today. As a lost 21 year old kid—I’m 31 now—how long have
you been doing the Google Ad Words book?
Perry: The very first version was 12 years ago.
Dane: Yeah, so 12 years ago. 2 years into it, as you shake your head, is that a longer
time that you expected to say?
Perry: Yeah. I don’t know how this happened. I feel the world just keeps going
around the sun. I don’t know who passed that long but it seems to happen
that way.
Dane: It does and two years into that, I found your Ad Words book and I went
through your five days to success in Google Ad Words course. I devoured
everything. I bought the book but I couldn’t even afford it at the time. I
couldn’t even afford your Ad Words guide so I got my successful Uncle to buy
it for me.
Perry: Wow.
Dane: I got him on the phone and as I clicked buy, there was of course an upsell on
the next page and I was like, “Oh, Rob, can we get this upsell? Perry’s going
to get ripped apart for an hour and brutally grilled by these interviews.” I was
like we have to get this too, can we get it too? He’s like “yeah we can get this
too.” I got your book, I bought your upsell, and we bought with my Uncle’s
credit card and that set the course for my business life — reading your book
made entrepreneurship possible for me so thank you.
Perry: Wow, that’s great. Well, I’m kind of thankful that Google decided to invent or
fix paper click and resurrect Claude Hopkins who wrote scientific advertising
and finally create the perfect place to learn direct response marketing. To
me, that’s what Google Ad Words always was. It was really cool in itself but
what was most cool about it was what it meant and what you learned from it.
It wasn’t the tool; it was what you learned from the tool. I get to say in
creating that, they spawned who knows how many new industries. It just
speaks to the value of creating something truly new and original in the world.
I’m delighted to hear your story.
Dane: You said it’s not the tool but what you can learn from the tool.
Perry: Yeah.
Dane: What do you mean?
Perry: Before Google Ad Words—let’s go before the internet—in 1918, Claude
Hopkins, the guy who invented coupons, wrote a book called “Scientific
Advertising.” The reason he invented coupons was so you could track the
effectiveness of ads and he described this pain-staking scientific process of
writing, testing, and measuring your ads, beating your control, and figuring
out your return on investment. He knew some of this even before the turn of
the century. How many bottles of Tide boxes of laundry detergent did we sell
in Cincinnati, Ohio?
He said that at the end of his book—he goes “You know? We’ve got it all
figured out. It’s all science now. Advertising is just science. The only thing left
for us—there’s no mystery to it anymore, there’s just practicing our science.”
Then the world went on this 90 year detour and it was called Madison
Avenue. Ad Agencies were pretty much the same as the United Nations
which means they have expensive breakfast and PowerPoint presentations.
They take credit for payments when they go up and they blame somebody
else when they go down. There’s no accountability and there’s no
measurements, there’s just politicking and getting the drinks as fast as
possible. Advertising was just this world of non-sense for decades.
The internet came along and you could measure everything. And then Google
creates this little machine where you put five bucks in the machine and you
could bid on any phrase or word in the English language and you only have to
pay when they click through to see your website and they found out what
you have to say. I’m like this is cool but the thing was—Claude Hopkins had
coupons and Google had conversion tracking code. He put the little pencil on
your thank you page and you find out how many people came through and
you learn to test ads, A B.
Does A beat B or does B beat A. Then you have a new one and you’re always
trying to beat your best ad and you’re actually making scientific decisions
based on return on investment, you’re not just guessing anymore. You can sit
there and write these little ads and change the words easy to the word cheap
and the click through rate would double or go in half or whatever the case
may be. You’re actually learning you put a dollar in, turn the crank, and you
get two dollars out and that’s what advertising’s supposed to do—that’s how
it’s supposed to work.
It totally revolutionized the world. Now everybody who knows anything
about marketing and advertising knows about testing, ROI, conversions, and
cost to acquire new customers—all of the people that have any clue know all
that stuff. It’s an amazing revolution to realize the world’s been completely
revolutionized. I guess we’re kind of used to hearing that now but it’s pretty
I don’t know how many people I’ve talked to and they tell a story a little sort
of like yours—somewhere in there. They bought the ad words book and they
learned Google Ad Words and then they’ll say something like “You know, I
got Google slapped.” “I got into a different kind of business.” This happened
or that happened and “I don’t use Google Ad Words anymore, I use this other
thing and I use all the things I learned from Google Ad Words and I just use it
there instead.” Awesome, I love entrepreneurs who are thinking and their
wide awake—not sleep walking—curious, and love the process. You know
what? That is really cool. The most adventurous place to be in the world
today I think is with entrepreneurs that are creating new realities and maybe
working from their bedroom as the case may be.
Dane: I was thinking I have two businesses that are over a million a year and I am
operated from my bedroom. We have a team of 20 or 30, I was like “when do
we get a physical location if we even do get a physical location?” This is kind
of weird being in my bedroom still.
Perry: Yeah. I’m glad you made your bed today. You obeyed your mother.
Dane: I actually just made it before this interview. What is it about being with
entrepreneurs that are wide awake and curious that you like?
Perry: I guess it’s in contrast to what I don’t like which is half the world’s just sleepwalking.
We live in the most amazing age that you could ever live in, right? A
week and a half ago I got in a plane; 7-hour trip to do a 5-day vacation with
my 16-year old son in Western Ireland. Then, I do a one-day workshop and I
come home. Everything we did there like you can actually do that? My dad
never travelled any further than Hawaii and he was lucky to get that far. You
think about our parents and grandparents and limitations that they lived
under. There are so many things you can do—you can be a member of the jet
set just making a quarter million dollars a year. “There’s a party in Paris, I
think I’ll go.” You can do that.
I really like something you said though. You said “I don’t really believe in lying
on the beach. I believe in using your freedom for impact.” I think that’s really
important. I got two adopted kids and that’s a whole interesting side I got.
The reason that I became an entrepreneur when I could’ve done something
easier was that it was so important to me to be able to wake up in the
morning and do the priority that I thought was important, not the priority
some boss was important. If I’m waking up in the morning and I’m like Avi
who can’t go to a wedding because his boss won’t let him go, I think I’ll
If you can use freedom to get more people free—also, I had a kind of an
existential moment, I don’t know what it was. It might’ve been 10 years ago.
It was when my business was successful enough that I can kind of sort of do
what I wanted to do. I finally had enough money to do stuff like if I want to
go to the bookstore and buy a couple of CDs, I could do that because I got the
money in my checking account. Nobody’s going to miss it. That or even
better, I can get on a plane and I can go to China or Taiwan or Hong Kong or
When I got to that point, I also had a realization which was “Hey, guess what
Perry? Just because you finally got what you were yearning for doesn’t mean
everybody else got what they were yearning for.” It didn’t solve everybody
else’s problems. I really believe that entrepreneurs are the lifeblood of
civilization—they fuel the world. The first trip to Africa, I went around with
this guy named George and George ran a foster care program for Aids
orphans. I spent a day going around and meeting Aids orphans and after a
day or day and a half of this, I’m just really depressed. There’s some kind of
nagging me.
It was a comment somebody had said to me about—hand out some cherries
but really people got to get on their feet and they got to be also standing. I
kept thinking about it and I said, “Hey, have you ever heard of micro loans?”
And he goes “Yeah, sure. We do those too. You want to meet some people?”
I’m like “Yeah, I’ll meet some micro loan people.” We wonder into this village
and we go see this guy. He runs a cobbler shop. Interesting thing about his
guy—his name was Paul—he was a crippled guy fixing shoes for a living. He’s
sitting there and his crutches are against the wall. He’s fixing shoes and
there’s a line of people in the door and at the counter and he’s talking to
them and he’s talking to us and I look him in the eye and he looks me back in
the eye. It’s like he’s there. He’s not sleep walking.
A lot of the other people I had seen in Africa, they were very nice and
polite—they were wonderful people—but they had this glazed over black
stare. The blank stare said “I am so grounded down; life is such a struggle
that I just kind of feel hopeless.” He did not radiate that at all. What he was
radiating was “I got a store, I got customers, I’m a pillar in my community, my
kids have uniforms for school, they’re getting an education, and life is good.”
He had that look, he was all there. He didn’t even speak English but I looked
at him and he looked at me and there was this connection that happened.
I suddenly had epiphany. The epiphany was “Hey, you know what, taking care
of Aids orphans is great. Giving people clothes, shoes, and food, and things
like that is great. But you know what, if you don’t have Paul running a
business like a cobbler shop or whatever it is and being self-sustaining and
providing his service to other people and getting paid for it, then there is no
schools and there is no government and there are no churches or UNICEF,
there is no United Nations; it starts with an entrepreneur.
I had this flashback and in my flashback, all the things can just race through
your head in two seconds. I had this flashback and I’m standing on a chair at
an NY Rally and I’m squirting sling shot in the air. “We’re going to be
diamonds and we’re going to get rich.” Which I had completely left out
behind, like “Yeah, drink that pink Kool-Aid, been there done that Goth tshirt.”
I’m thinking “Well you know, maybe getting excited about being a
successful entrepreneur wasn’t so crazy after all. Maybe that is something
that much people should get a stadium and get all cheered up about as
opposed to football.”
This really matters. This is not just “oh, you money grubbing capitalist. Why
can’t you just be content?” The person that says that to you is slumbering in
a bed of complacency. Nobody should feel guilty about wanting to get free
and wanting to do what you really want to do because you know what? This
is the 21st century. You can design your life now. I don’t know if you could
design your life in 1864 in the Irish Potato Salmon but you can now. If you
can, why wouldn’t you? In fact, if you can I think it’s your moral obligation to
do it. Why would a person who has a capacity to become free stay a slave?
Dane: What’s your answer?
Perry: Well, I don’t know. Beer, bag of ruffles, money night, football,
embarrassment, fear of failure, relatives, brother in law, bankruptcies, terror,
lines of credit, payroll, Google slabs, Facebook slabs, government regulations,
government mockery mucks, the federal treaty commission, federal
communications commission, food and drug administration, the guys in black
suits, and vultures. All the movies that you’re ever going to watch have a
villain. You’re going to face them and let somebody else do it. You can live
vicariously through somebody else if you want. Is that what you want? Is that
what you’re going to feel good about when you’re almost dead?
Dane: Tell me about what your life’s like on the day to day basis right now. What
are you thinking about, what are you working on, what’s present and most of
life for you that you’re excited about these days?
Perry: I have two missions; one of them is to heal the rift between science and
religion, the other one is to stimulate a second renaissance. The first one was
500 years ago, it was pretty successful. We need another one. I’m renting my
company more and more to allow me the space for those other explorations.
I always find that the other explorations have this funny way of feeding back
into my business.
Dane: What were the explorations again?
Perry: I’ll give you an example. I’m one of these people that the beliefs that
everything’s connected. I don’t just mean that in some kind of metaphysical
eerie fairy kind of way. I also mean that in a very practical way. I believe that
everything you learn can be useful almost anywhere else if you’re awake and
paying attention. Without going into too much of the story, about 11 years
ago I became intensely interested in this whole where did we come from
question. What about evolution, creation, all that kind of stuff.
On the surface, there were these two luring sides that everybody’s heard
both of those sides before. I kept digging deeper and I kept digging deeper
and I found that there was this whole vein of gold of science that nobody’s
really talking about in the public. Let me give you a slice. We’re hopefully on
the tail end of this E-bola epidemic, right? I think people probably know that
we have the E-bola now and we did not have E-bola 10 years ago. E-bola
emerged from the bacteria population. E-bola, virus, bacteria, you got all
these things.
When you go to the doctor and you’re sick—you got a strep throat—the
doctor tells you here’s these antibiotics and I want you to take these and you
have to finish the whole bottle. Have you ever had the doctor tell you that?
Do you know why you have to finish the whole bottle?
Dane: Marketers.
Perry: No, actually it’s not marketers. It’s very smart bacteria. If you don’t kill them
dead, if you almost kill them but not quite, they’ll come back stronger and
you won’t be able to kill them. They’ll develop resistance and here’s what
actually goes on. You have strep throat and you’re taking the strep stuff and
the strep adjourns. This poison is leaking into my cell wall, this is killing me.
I’m going to die if I don’t get rid of this poison. It goes around and it looks for
a pump. Cells have a drop box folder. It’s called plasma and it has a copy of
their DNA in it, and it’s for sharing. Maybe I should call it a USB stick but they
got the stick.
“Hey, what’s on your USB stick?” “Here’s what’s on my USB stick,” and they
have this conversation and that bacteria goes “Hey, you got a pump!” I want
that. Its sex in the DNA, it finds the part that codes for your pump, reads the
code, builds a pump, installs the pump, updates its USB stick, and then starts
pumping out the poison and start dividing off new bacteria that all have
pumps. This is what happens, I kid you not. You know how long it takes? It
takes 30 minutes.
Dane: What’s your point with this?
Perry: Here’s my point with this. First of all, that’s how evolution works. It’s not like
some random accident. It works because cells are so smart that they know
how to do programming that humans don’t even know how to do. I spend a
lot of my time exploring things and learning things. If there’s something I
want to know and I need to go to a conference and I learn about it.
First of all, this started expanding my thinking about everything. I said to
myself “Okay, what if you started applying some of the things that sells to
you to your Google Ads.” That’s why I’m telling you this story. What if a
Google Ad was as smart as a cell and a Google Ad could mutate the way a cell
does and go grab some other words—grab some sentences from
somewhere—what would it do. If a Google Ad could talk to a person from the
corner of a computer screen, what would it say? I started asking this question
and what emerged from thinking about this was a whole set of tools that we
call the Swiss army knife.
The Swiss army knife is a systematic creativity mechanism that beats any
control of any ad every written. I don’t care where you got your ad from; I
don’t care what you did. If you threw out a Swiss army knife and started
going through all the options, you will come up with a mutated E-bola version
of your ad that’s even more viscous than what you had before and you win
the race, you beat the control.
I started finding that instead of going to just reading yet another business
book that has yet another version of the same stuff I read before, I started
going outside of the business world and reading all these other fields and
bringing the stuff back in the business. The funny thing is I don’t really pay a
lot of attention to what all the other business and marketing guys are doing. I
go steal stuff from completely different areas and that’s where you get
innovations. That’s where you get industry breakthroughs. If we could just
get about 1% in the world of people who think this way, I think we will have a
second renaissance. It’s time, we’re overdue. It’s time to have that happen.
Dane: I’m going to track this all—you learned about the USB bacteria E-bola thing
and how it happens in half an hour and how it plugs in and finds a pump and
the cells and it mutates the cells?
Perry: Yeah, it mutates itself.
Dane: It mutates itself and then for some weird reason, your brain says “How do we
do this with Google Ads?” How did you make that connection?
Perry: The biggest problem that people have with Google Ad Words—other than
Google—is Google is always mucking around with you. Giving you bad advice,
or disapproving something. Aside from that, the biggest problem that people
have is they get into a creativity rut. They’re testing ads but they just keep
testing the same ideas. They’re sitting there and testing “well, should I capital
or lower case some word,” when there’s this whole range of other ideas that
they never even tried. They’re confined to what you called or helped the
poverty of their imagination. They don’t know how to escape it so they get in
these ruts. I thought
“You know what this is like, this is like an animal or creature that doesn’t
know how to evolve,” If the cells didn’t know how to evolve, the antibiotics
would just kill them and they’d be dead and that would be the end of it and
there would be no more. There’s always this little percentage of them that
persists. Why, because they adapt. I learn about cells and these cells are way
smarter than any human, hands down.
Dane: The cells are smarter than any human meaning they can do arithmetic?
Perry: They re-program themselves. I don’t know how they know how to do this.
They can cut, place, rearrange their DNA, there are protozoa cells that can
cut their DNA into a hundred thousand pieces, completely rearrange it, and
completely change their body chemistry. Now, they can digest stuff they
couldn’t digest before. They can adapt to new—they went from fresh water
to salt water and they can completely change things around and adapt to it. I
don’t have any idea how they know how to do this. It’s beyond—it’s almost
unfathomable but it’s true. It does happen, you can observe it, it’s proven,
and there is no question about it.
I said what if my Google Ad was smart like that cell, what would it do? What
would it ask? If it can ask the customer a question, what question would it
ask? I started writing down those questions and put it into a matrix where no
matter what you’ve already tried, there are a million other things that you
never tried before and they’re right in front of your face and we just stick
them together like Legos and away you go.
Dane: What are some of the questions that you came up with?
Perry: The Swiss army knife is actually the 17 blades and each blade has blades
within the blade. You may have an idea of the first blade. The first blade is—
who is your customer’s best friend? Write down five people or institutions or
things they love and admire. Who’s their worst enemy? Maybe their enemy is
the IRS, maybe their enemy is their ex-wife, and maybe the enemy is their
business partner. Who are their enemies, you write all that down. What’s a
positive force or belief in their life? You go write some of those things down.
What’s a negative force or belief in their life? Write some of those down.
That’s just four of them, there’s a bunch more.
We’re going to write an ad about a positive force or belief and their worst
enemy. Take one thing from this list, one thing from this list, combine it and
write an ad, boom! Now, let’s take best friend and something they’re worried
about. Who’s their biggest ally, who’s the biggest person they admire, match
that up with something they’re lying awake at night sleeping, like awake
when they’re supposed to sleep. Write an ad about that. You get another
completely different Google Ad and the things is when you ask these
questions properly, you get right to the core of the emotion that drives the
Based on the Swiss army knife—if you’re advertising for a divorce attorney or
divorce councilor, the ad says what will you… It says “The other woman, what
will you say the first time your little boy calls her mommy?” This came out of
best friend worst enemy and all this kind of stuff and it goes right to the core
of the problem. Most therapists are writing an ad that says “Ronda Jones,
LCSW (license clinical therapist) in Shemberg, Illinois, which is the most
boring ad in the world. You’re writing an ad that gets you right to the core of
what a woman in the middle of a divorce is thinking about which is the other
woman as a step-mom. You might have to dial that down a little bit or you
might have to tame it or whatever but hey, we know where the hot buttons
are. We know where the bombs are buried, we know where the land mines
are, and we can function very intelligently from that.
There’s a name for going and borrowing something from Biology and using it
somewhere else—it’s biomimetic. I do this a lot in business. It’s a key to
solving problems. It’s a way of stepping outside your familiar world and the
usual answers. This is really important because think about if you can deliver
it as a string of 1s and 0s or if you could put it in a box and ship it, then
Amazon can sell it. If Amazon can sell it, somebody else can knock it off or
even Amazon can knock it off. They even got their own brands now.
You’re a commodity and that’s the worst thing you can be unless you’re a
gigantic corporation and you’re number one in your market. You don’t want
to be a commodity. The only way to not be a commodity is to be able to
reinvent at will on demand, to reinvent things for your industry and
customers so that you’re not at the mercy of just battling over cheapestpriced
and fastest delivery and all of that. That’s the only way you’re going to
survive, it’s the only way you’re going to get free.
Dane: About 11 years ago, you become fascinated with where we come from and
you find this vein of science. In this vein of science, you find this E-bola. You
explain how an e-bola virus will talk to other cells and change the cells so
they survive and get stronger. You start thinking, “How can I get a Google Ad
to do that same thing and get stronger and stronger?” Thus, you come up
with a Swiss army knife. Your brain is crazy.
Perry: Well, you know, it happened the more widely you read, travel, study, and
think about things. The more natural it is. I think musicians do this.
Dane: How long, how did you learn to think this way? Backing up—I was at a Google
Ad Words conference with you. By the way, I think I was making six grand at
the time I had my recruiting ninja website. I introduced myself to you and I
say “Hey Perry, I’m doing this.” “What are you doing in the world?” “I got this
and I’m doing this [inaudible, 0:39:40] and you look me in the eye and you
say “You must be proud.” I said "holy crap Perry is proud of me." I was like
Perry: Of course I am.
Dane: That was a huge moment for me. First off when I meet you, you’re dressed in
this funky Hawaiian shirt and you look like a total nerd in my opinion. And
then, the end of the weekend, you’re like “Alright guys, I’m really tired of
talking about Google Ad Words. I’m going to talk to you about what I want to
talk to you about now.” And then you showed us how you go about evolving
ads based on random character assertions. You’ve been doing this weird stuff
your whole life. You’ve been thinking differently since I’ve ever known you.
How did you learn to think that way?
Perry: First thing that passed in my mind is I remember when I read the book 1984
by George Orwell, that was required reading in school and I was in middle
school. There’s this commentary at the end of the book after the story is
over. For some reason, he goes on this thing and he talks about lateral
thinking. He says lateral thinking is forcing an answer to what does this thing
have to do with this other thing even though they don’t seem to be related to
anything at all. I got a cup and I got a set of headphones. What does a cup
have to do with a set of headphones?
This cup has a little bit of juice left in it and I don’t want to pour the juice in
the headphones but okay. What connections can we make between and the
set of headphones? Well, it could be that the diaphragm of the headphone
speaker is made of the same material as the cup. It makes me think of we can
take the cup and we can tie a string to it, we can have another cup, and then
we can have a 10-can conversation and that’s communication which is the
very root of entry—the unsophisticated version of what you do with
Maybe I could take scissors and I could take the semi-circle of this cup and I
could cut it out and I could put some little felt things on the end and I could
make headphones for my daughter’s doll. I just rift on that. It probably
sounded really stupid but you ask questions and you jam things together.
Have you ever heard of somebody saying “Well, if you got a problem that you
want to solve, go to the fifth book over on your book shelf, turn to page five,
go to the fifth paragraph, and read the first sentence and see if that has
anything to say about how you can solve your problem.”
I guess this is just me believing that everything is connected. In a very serious
way, I think that the universe operates on a very fundamental set of
principles. One of the principles is that you as a living creature have to use
your resources more efficiently than most of the other ones around you
otherwise you die. It’s a basic fact of biology, everybody knows this. If you
believe in standard plain vanilla, Darwinian evolution—the way it is in most
textbooks—you think it’s all a big random accident. Well, it’s not because
that doesn’t work.
You can’t write Google Ads with random accidents. It doesn’t work, go ahead
and try it if you want. Try a random copying error and stick in some new
letters or just some random word out of a dictionary and stick it in your
Google Ad. See if that works, it won’t. What I realized was no actually, these
bacteria are doing something incredibly, and amazingly smart. I went and
learned all about that and then when I kind of got the analogy, I brought it
back. The world is full of analogies. I mean full of them. I think any one thing
can be a metaphor for a hundred other things, but can you see it? I’ve been
asking myself these kinds of questions since I was a teenager. It’s become a
natural way to think.
Dane: Could you apply a phrase like “White men can’t jump,” to Google Ad Words?
Perry: White men can’t… I’m going to write that down. The first thing is the word
white and that’s the color of the background in most ads but that
immediately gets me to—well, if you test batter ads on Google Ad Words,
you find the colors and images make a huge difference. In fact, we need to
make a Swiss Army Knife of imagery, not just words, so that the whole other
product. Whether you’re selling to a man or a woman, men and women I
think are even more different than most of us give credit for.
Here’s an example. I’m an audio geek. Those speakers out there by the
ceiling, I made those. Those other speakers in the end of my room, I built
those too. I used to be a speaker engineer. 99.5% of audio geeks are men.
You will almost never go to an audio club and audio trade show or anything
like that and see a bunch of women standing around. They’re almost not
I believe that men and women hear differently. I can play some music
through these speakers, 24bit digital audio file recording and the quality of
that recording is so simulating it squirts so much happy juice into my brain. I
am absolutely convinced that it does not do that to most women. It does not
create the same reaction; it does not create the same response. I think men
and women have a significantly different experience of the whole entire
world than each other. That’s two words of white men can’t jump, is that a
good start?
Dane: Yeah, that’s a good start. I love that you just applied white to expanding the
Swiss Army Knife. Your mind just did all that.
Perry: Yeah, there’s a lot of commerce too.
Dane: I want to talk to you—I want to shift gears with you—you’re a brilliant
positioning, marketing, and businessman/strategist. Did you study under Dan
Kennedy and did he have an influence on you niching into Google Ad Words?
Because I always just thought you’re Google Ad Words but I didn’t realize
you’re so brilliant in business, you figured out you can become famous by
niching into Google Ad Words?
Perry: Dan’s been the number one marketing influence and you got to give the guy
credit because I wandered into a coliseum in Puree, Illinois, just really going
broke and he gave his talk on marketing. I bought some of his stuff and it
turned my life around. I’m forever indebted to Dan for talking some sense
into me. Dan and this other guy named Jeff Paul—about 20 years ago—they
came up with this thing that became known as the JPDK model (John Paul
Dan Kennedy model) for being a guru in a niche. The original JPDK model was
you go learn about direct marketing and…
Let’s say you’re a magician and you do magic shows and that’s your business.
You do birthday parties and stuff. You’re struggling and you’re not making
any money and then you buy some Dan Kennedy stuff and go to a couple of
seminars and learn direct response marketing. Then, you turn your whole
magic show business around and you triple your revenues, go from driving a
trimmed Corolla to driving an Audi. Life is good, your wife isn’t mad at you
The next thing you do is you hang out your shingle and you start selling
information products to all the other magic show guys and you say “Hey, I
raised myself from failure to success in direct marketing. I’m going to teach
you how to do that, look at me I drive an Audi instead of a Corolla. Buy my
stuff and then pretty soon, you’re doing your own marketing seminars for
magic show guys.” That’s called the JPDK model. I learned about that and I
envisioned doing something like that and I started out kind of trying to do
JPDK model in business to business industrial sales.
That market wasn’t super responsive but while I was trying to make that
work, I discovered Google Ad Words and I kind of stumbled into realizing that
I could actually be a guru of an advertising medium instead of being a guru of
a vertical industry. That became very interesting because now that I’m so—I
have to put out my books and stuff and the world started copying and doing
business with me. Now, I’m teaching Google Ad Words to all these people in
literally hundreds of industries; its chiropractors, real-estate guys,
nutritionists, and everything under the sun.
It turns out Google Ad Words is not their only problem. They need better
offers, better landing pages, split-testing, they need to hire good people and
all this other stuff. You just start walking through open doors when you go
from one thing to the next to the next. I did understand pretty early on that
being pre-eminent in my field in some one recognized area was super critical.
I’m going to own the Ad Words space. I am going to be the Ad Words guy. I’m
going to do this.
I learned that from Dan, I also learned it from Joe Pillage. I had a hamburger
with him once and he’s like “You want to dominate your market. You don’t
just want to be number three or five, you want to own it.” I took him
seriously and it’s true. You want to be the number one guy; you do not want
to be number five. If you can’t be number one because it’s already taken,
then you need to carve off a slice of the market where nobody is number one
and make yourself number one there. Don’t try to climb to the top of some
existing heap, it’s ridiculous.
Dane: You keep rolling your eyes as you say that.
Perry: Well, it’s just the exercise in futility. It almost never works. If you look at all of
the companies that seemingly came out of nowhere, they all invented
something that didn’t exist before. You will hardly find an exception.
McDonalds one time was the fastest company to a billion or something like
that way back in the day. They pretty much invented fast food. They
popularized it anyway. Google, Facebook, Apple.
Dane: Wasn’t Google 5th in the market?
Perry: Yes, they were but they reinvented the understanding of what search really
was. They recognized that search is not based on key words; it’s based on
everybody else’s behavior. It’s based on modernity people’s behavior which
started out as back links and quickly progressed to all of these other things.
It’s not obvious on the surface that they reinvented the search engine that
they really did. Once they had that in place, nobody could beat them. They
had too much momentum; it was inevitable that they would crush everybody
Dane: It was inevitable that they’ve crushed everyone else.
Perry: Yeah. Based on the set-up of the situation, they had a fundamentally
different philosophy than everybody else.
Dane: You got Google Ad Words coming out, you decided you wanted to JPDK that
and you publish a book. Is that the first thing you did?
Perry: Yeah, it was all published and eventually I sort of donated it to a publisher
which was a huge trade-off. I traded money for fame essentially because I
knew that the money was going to run out anyway. The topic was going to
get commoditized and I knew five years later, you’re going to be able to go to
the bookstore and buy three different books on Google Ad Words and they
were going to cost 15 bucks and I wasn’t going to be selling $97 definitive
guide to Google Ad Words anymore. I needed to stay ahead of that curve so I
Dane: How long did it take you to write the first version of that book when you’re
starting from nothing there?
Perry: The first—I figured out Ad Words basically and then when it was time to
write the book, it took about two months. I think it was about 110 pages.
Dane: Are you okay with sharing some numbers in your business, rough ball parts of
Perry: Maybe?
Dane: Maybe, I’m super curious, I’ve always been curious. How many different—I
want to get to direct response marketing mind here in the last period of this
interview. How many people do you have on your e-mail list?
Perry: In theory, I have probably about 400,000 but in reality, it’s more like 40. It’s
an 80 20 answer. If you look at the 20% generate 80%, its a few tens of
thousands. One thing you’ll find about any business like mine is—really
almost any business—is that it’s driven and sustained by a much smaller
number of customers than most people realize. 60% of our revenue comes
from 3% of our customers the last time I checked. There are probably 50
customers that generate half of our revenue. That’s actually true in most
businesses. For famous people and info marketers and all that, there’s still
the cord of the businesses fairly small number of people, clients, or whatever.
Dane: So around 400,000 in total but in actuality around 40,000 are the guys that
are driving your business.
Perry: I don’t send e-mails to 400,000 people. I would get all these spam complaints
and everything. Anybody that has an e-mail list for a long time is what I’m
talking about.
Dane: What’s your primary source of sales and revenue right now? How are you
generating revenue online?
Perry: Our mastermind membership is big. Our round table membership is big. The
clients are big. Those would be the three main ones. We have all these
extraneous other products but mostly those are ways to attract people to us.
Dane: You like to make the money of the big ticket items, the masterminds, the
round tables, and the product clients?
Perry: Mastermind isn’t a big ticket item. The other is. I prefer mass production
wherever possible. You find it to have a healthy business; so far it’s been
important to have some clients too.
Dane: Is there a reason that you keep your marketing more on the uglier side?
Perry: No, actually we’re about to roll up a completely new website design that’s
effect—if you go to you can already see some of it.
I’m not intentionally ugly, I don’t believe [inaudible, 1:00:00] intentionally
ugly. I may have been just not—I am like the furthest thing from a graphic
designer. That tends to get neglected. I tend to connect with people through
my writing. I don’t advocate ugly marketing per say. It works sometimes for
some people, but for the most part, better looking marketing works better.
That’s a fact.
Dane: Perry is an expert on Ad Words, he’s an expert on 80 20 but I kept a lot of
that out because you can go read that stuff. Perry, you probably talked about
that until you’re blue in the face. I wanted to talk to you about personal
things. Can you tell me about what you’re personal lives like? You have a
couple of kids—a couple because you adopted—I think I heard them playing
in the background, a happy marriage. Can you also talk a little bit about—if
you want to—your faith and how that plays a role in business?
Perry: I grew up in this super conservative environment.
Dane: You seem really expressed now, you seem like you got out of it.
Perry: I did and that’s not conservative people may mean. I’m just telling you—this
was a really serious bunch of people. I grew up in and came from a met and
ate background. I grew up in Nebraska which is a very conservative place. My
dad was a minister. There’s always people that go around and they’ll say stuff
like “Oh, you just inherit religion from your parents.” It’s usually kind of this
insult like you’re just a do ahead of your parents. I’ll tell you what, I’m a
thinking person, I’m an intellectual being, and nothing in my world goes
unquestioned. I’m not capable—I don’t think I’m not questioning up.
Hopefully, you can see.
I really went through multiple phases of “Can I tear Christianity apart, put it
back together, does it hold up?” Frankly, I think it holds up pretty well. In
fact, I’ll go so far as to say that Christianity is the back bone of Western
Civilization. Frederick Neetchy knew this, by the way. Most Atheists today
don’t. Neetchy—a very famous Atheist from the 19th century and brilliant
intellectual—the chief contribution he made in his writing was recognizing
that if God was dead—which he believed to be the case—that everything in
the normal and legal and philosophical framework of everything that we
believe becomes unhitched.
We have modern science because of Judeo Christian boys. Science got
started in Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Ancient China, Ancient Egypt, and
then the Arab world got started in all these places and it fizzled out. It got
started in Western Europe and took off like rocket because people believed
in a rational God who made a world that obeyed fixed discoverable laws. To
discover those laws was an active worship.
There’s a verse in the Catholic Apocrypha. Where I grew, Catholic is bad,
don’t talk to those guys. There’s some really brilliant stuff in the books of the
bible that Catholics have that the Protestants threw out. One of them is
Wisdom of Psalm 11:20. It says “Thou has ordered everything in weight, in
number, in measure.” Do you realize that’s 2500 years old? It is the first
statement of the scientific world view in the history of literature. Modern
science eventually came from that idea. If you think science is cool, thank a
Christianity is also responsible for the equality that we have in modern
western society. There is a book called “Democracy in America” by Alexis
Detoteville. It’s a very famous book, very well respected. It was written in
1835 and in the early 1800s, the European Aristocrats were seriously worried
because America was all the rage and they were afraid that they were going
to lose all their Kings and Queens and everything. The French were really
nervous about this so they sent the smartest guy that they could find to the
United States and they said “Go figure this place out. Figure out what makes
the place tick and come back and tell us.”
Detoteville goes to United States and lived here for about five or ten years. In
1835, he writes a book called “Democracy in America.” In “Democracy in
America,” he says that we have this idea of equality. He says the United
States is based on tension between two ideas. He said one idea is
individualism and he invented that word to describe Americans; individualism
in tension with equality. Equality is the belief that everybody is of equal
worth, equal value, we all get to vote, all that. He said we’re all equal but we
get to be unequal in America.
He says these are the two forces that make America what it is. He goes “Now
where did this equality come from?” He traces it back and he goes back to St.
Paul who said “In Christ there is neither male nor female, Jew or Greek, slave
or free. All are equal in Christ Jesus. That is the first statement of equality in
Ancient Literature. If you like living in a country or a modern western world
where everybody has human rights, where we were trained to figure out how
everybody can get health care, where everybody can get an education, thank
St. Paul.
I have a whole website called which goes into the
historicity and the validity of the Christian faith, that irrational thinking
person who demands proof and evidence can accept. I think the Christian
world view is the most rational world view. This has been very important to
me and I’ve had this trip—all of this down to the engine blocks and start over
in my life, it leaves twice. Both times I came back to the conclusion of no, this
is the real deal. This informs what I do.
One time, Glenn Livingston—some people would know who he is—he’s a
genius market research guy and he does a lot of interesting things.
Dane: Perry, is Glenn still up to what he’s doing since years ago?
Perry: Sort of and then he’s doing some other things too.
Dane: I just want to mention that I learned so much from Glenn when you talked
about him. Just so the audience knows briefly, he would go after a niche like
guinea pigs. To refresh my memory on this, he would find what people
wanted with guinea pigs it was like how to let their guinea pig live longer.
They would get a table of contents and you would have someone publish that
book and he would create all these products from nothing over and over
Perry: Right, he developed this extraordinarily brilliant system of market research
for online marketers. It’s totally brilliant and there’s a little bit of his stuff in
my 80 20 book and you can go to and you can find
more. Glenn is totally brilliant and he mentors people and he’s an info
marketer. He does a lot of thing. He was asking me to explain “Perry, what’s
your philosophy of teaching?” I said “Look, teaching a subject is
Stewardship is kind of religious word and it means you’ve been put in charge
of something and you’re expected to take care of it until the owner comes
back. It’s the idea that you’re not really the owner of this thing, God is. He
does expect a good return out of investment and he expects people to act
At the beginning of our time together before you started rolling the tape, you
said our avatar for this session is Avi who’s an Indian guy, works in the United
States, his family is in India and he can’t go to his sister’s wedding. He’s trying
to get free. If you get up—Dan Kennedy’s got this thing that he taught which I
love, which is if you want to be the expert then appoint yourself expert and
start acting like one which is really how all experts get to be where they are.
Somebody had to start Harvard University; it wasn’t a famous institution on
the first day, right?
There’s a responsibility that comes with that because you’re talking to Avi. If
Avi buys your e-book for $50 and your e-book is crap, Avi didn’t just lose $50,
he lost three months trying to do whatever you said you’re going to teach
him how to do that doesn’t work. That’s really serious. You don’t have a right
to screw that guy over. You don’t have a right to make marketing into this
game where the fat cats eat the lunch of all the skinny cats. You’re supposed
to make more lunch. You’re supposed to bake more pies and more pizzas and
more everything. This is alchemy. If you teach some of these some, it better
There’s a verse in the bible that says “Those who are teachers will be held to
a higher standard than everybody else.” I don’t want to believe in point but I
think you get the idea. Entrepreneurs really are the lifeblood. When you do
the job for Avi and when you put really good things in his hands and he starts
that software company and then he’s working from home and he’s got two
employees and then he’s got ten employees.
Now, he’s got a whole building in India of people over there writing
programs. They’re feeding their families. That is a really wonderful thing and
this is how the world gets out of poverty. It doesn’t get out of poverty from
Nancy Pulozy coming up with some new social program. It comes from Paul
the guy in Africa or you or me or Avi creating something that didn’t exist
before and using our talents.
Dane: I feel so deeply inspired by what you’re talking about right now. How is it for
you to share all this?
Perry: It’s great to have permission. Not everybody ask me these questions. I like it
when—this is the real stuff, you know what I’m saying? I like being asked
about the real stuff. I guess it probably reminds you of that seminar where I
said “Okay, so now I want to talk about what I want to talk about,” I realized
there are certain things people want to know. They show up and want to
learn them but it’s fun when somebody goes off topic and we talk about the
other stuff. Frankly, the questions that most people are asking are kind of the
wrong questions anyway.
Dane: This is the real stuff, what else is real that’s on your mind right now?
Perry: I just adopted bambino numero dos. A ten year old boy and so we got four
regular ones and then two adopted ones. That’s been really cool. I know that-
Dane: Just being empirical, do you actually think as the ones as regular and the
adopted, is that maybe energetically passed on?
Perry: It’s so obvious—they’re Chinese. It’s not like you could ever hide the fact.
What’s the point, right? I know back in the 1950s, people used to—I know
people who nobody even told them they were adopted until they were 20. I
always knew I wouldn’t even quite fit in the way that everybody else did.
Dane: I feel you. I feel like that, I really do.
Perry: Somehow, we’ve gotten past that and I think it’s great.
Dane: Somehow you’ve gotten past what?
Perry: Past having to pretend or hide it or—I don’t think there’s a stigma attached
to it anymore like it used to, I don’t think there is now.
Dane: There’s a brilliant phase that a guy said when you’re born into your parents,
your parents don’t choose you, it just happens. When you’re adopted, your
parents look up among the entire world and said I want you.
Perry: Yeah, that’s true. It’s a very deliberate thing. I had other friends and
customers who adopted kids because I nudged them over the edge. One of
them is Kevin Thompson; he’s coming to see me on Thursday. I guess one of
the real treats about having a level of influence is I finally now don’t always
have to plead, cajole, nag, and convince somebody or everybody to do
anything that I tell them is a good idea.
There’s a guy that mentored me for some stuff named Melvin. I e-mailed half
a dozen people and I said “You need to go see Melvin. It’ll cost you a
thousand bucks and a trip to Dallas, just go.” They went because I told them
to. I didn’t have to go into this big lung-freaking explanation. Dude, just trust
me, and go see Melvin. I’m just thankful that there are at least some people
where I can do that because I am trying to make the world a better place. I’m
not in a commission, Melvin doesn’t write me a check, just go see Melvin,
okay? It’ll do you good. They come back and say “Wow that was amazing.”
Since we’re talking openly about stuff, who’s Melvin? I’ll tell you who Melvin
is. His name is Melvin Pillay and he’s in Dallas and you can Google him and
find him. He’s got a book, it’s on Amazon, you can find out about this guy.
He’s a prophetic Christian guy. You donate a thousand dollars to his charity
which builds orphanages in South Africa, Kenya. You go to his office and he
does a white board session with you; that’s what he calls it. It will blow your
You know, take my word for it if you wish. Go over and research the guy to
death if you wish whatever. There are really cool things that can happen
when you’ve been through the fire and you get a certain level of influence
and you can start to lead people in hopefully a better path than they
otherwise would’ve found. That is really special.
Dane: What does that feel like for you?
Perry: You know what it feels like? It feels like it’s actually just the way it should be.
It feels like a really good normal. I think it is. One of the things I believe is the
job of Christians in the world is to bring Heaven to Earth. The closer Heaven
gets to Earth, the more praise people get, the less criticism and resistance
that they have to endure. The more money and economics and work flow are
in your gifted zones, the less it’s some tired stupid drudgery. It’s more people
having enough to eat when they go to bed at night and less orphans out on
the street. I get fan mail. I think everybody should get fan mail. It adds such a
nice little lift to your day.
When Dane Maxwell said “Seriously dude, I read your book and I figured out
how to build this business and I made $6000 a month and I told you I was
making $6000 a month and I said I bet that really makes you proud.” By
implication, I’m proud of you and yes I am. Everybody must have somebody
that’s proud of them. Everybody ought to get a letter from somebody that
says “Hey, you changed my life.” This should not be something that only 3%
of the people in the world get. Or only the really good teachers in school,
they’ll occasionally get an e-mail or Facebook from an old student who says
you were the best. The rest of them are all mediocre. That’s what I need
about a second renaissance.
First, everybody has to stop sleep-walking and then there’s going to be some
work that has to get done. The world can be way better. How high is up?
What if everybody started to learn something about intervening? What if
everybody got something similar to a so-so session? What if everybody had
the experience of—the Holy Spirit actually tells them why they were believing
in the… and he tells them the truth and they start believing that way and
they’re not stuck in that anymore. What if everybody had that experience at
least once in their life? It’s not like it couldn’t happen. You just need to wake
Dane: I kind of want to ask you again what else is real for you right now. What’s it
like for you to share all this, Perry?
Perry: It’s a little cathartic. I’ll have a conversation like this with some of my close
friends; I just don’t usually have them in public.
Dane: It’s my secret way of trying to get into your friend circle.
Perry: Which is fine—I have a student come into… I did a hot seat event in London
almost two years ago. Megan Misato came to it. Some people are starting to
find out who she is; she’s developing a little bit of neutrality now. At the time,
I can tell pretty quickly that she’s probably not the most financially qualified
person to be writing the check to be here. She wrote a check and she’s on the
hot seat, so let’s help her out.
I asked her what she’s doing and she’s doing web designing for people and
some copyrighting and stuff. I’m like, what do you really want to do and she
goes “What I really want to do is I want to solve people’s personal problems
by giving to their business problems first because people are not business
people with business problems. People are people with problems who also
own a business.” I’m like okay, this girl is really smart, yes she is absolutely
right. She’s like “I believe in self-disclosure and I want to relate with business
people through honesty and can you do that?” I’m like “Heck yes, you can.
You’re exactly right.”
I coach her through how to do that but I think mostly what she got out of that
was permission to be herself and start to do this. What she said is really true.
It’s not like people with business problems, its people with problems that
also own a business. Your business is a window into your soul and into the
rest of your life. The things that are holding you back in your business are the
same things that are holding you back in the rest of your life.
I was in Dublin last week and Megan was there and there was a bunch of
other people that were there and we’re doing a little workshop. I said “I don’t
know how many times I’ve heard somebody say ‘the business is really doing
well for a while and then it hit the skids. And then, the financial problems
started, and then there was a bankruptcy. And then, there was a divorce, and
then I start to get really real with myself and I dealt with a bunch of stuff and
now my business is back and I have a good relationship again now, and life is
better. Those are some really hard things that I learned but I’m really glad I
learned them.” I don’t know how many times I’ve heard that story. A
hundred times at least.
I always like to say “What if you got to the look in the mirror part before your
business unraveled? Before you went bankrupt and before the divorce and all
that stuff?” You can. It is possible. You can get the wakeup call before it’s
absolutely too late. That’s one of the things that I think is really important. I
think people have financial head trash; I have a whole financial head trash email
series on my website. Go to perrymarshall/headtrash and find—how fast
can you get from living in the “should be” world to living in the “is” world and
then really start to get to where you want to go?
Dane: People don’t have business problems, people have problems and they also
have a business.
Perry: Right.
Dane: We had about 400 or 500 students into The Foundation before I started
banging my head into the wall and finally realizing that what we were going
up against were emotional identity based issues. We created a whole
framework and structure on how to transform your identity and deal with the
emotional stuff so you do that mere stuff before things unravel.
Perry: It’s important, that’s good. Did you say you’re 31?
Dane: Yeah.
Perry: You’re 15 years ahead of most people, that’s really good. You’re precautious
so where did you learn to be precautious?
Dane: I experienced way too much pain the way I was living. It was too painful to
live this way so I had to change.
Perry: Pain is a really effective teacher if you turn to the mirror instead of
Dane: Do you know how many quotes I’ve written down on this interview? I’ve got
this, look at this.
Perry: Well, hey, queue them up and tweet them out over the next two weeks I
guess. I’m glad you like them. Not everybody’s that enthusiastic, so I’m glad
you are.
Dane: How could they not be? You’re one of the greatest minds that you could be
with right now. Just your concept—I asked you how you become to think this
way. You talk about reading a book back in high school about George Orwell
in 1984 and about this concept of lateral thinking, just that one idea plugged
in. And then, you go so far as to pull a cup and headphones. You actually
make it make sense.
Perry: They’re the nearest thing to me. I really like these headphones; they’re Grade
O SR225s. They sound great.
Dane: Pain is a really good teacher if you look in the mirror instead of meditating.
Perry: Most people do medicate. We don’t even know it. There’s a gazillion ways to
do it. You can do it with work holism; you can do it with alcohol, with sex,
with buying stuff, you can do it just by blocking off your emotions and being
numb. There’s just a gazillion ways to do it. If you really pay attention and
you’re just straight with it, you kind of look it in the eye; it will show you
where you need to go. One of the things they say in the so-so sessions is
okay, what am I believing about, fill in the blank? If you knock out your top 10
biggest lies you believe about stuff, there’s a lot of stuff in your life that will
Dane: What was a lie that you believed?
Perry: My first financial so-so session, first thing that came up was private jet.
Dane: What about that?
Perry: Let’s just kind of fast forward to the punch line. It was “Perry, do you think
that if you owned a private jet it would be ridiculously ostentatious and a
waste of money?” Actually it wouldn’t. Here’s what that meant. It did not
meant go out and buy a private jet. What it meant was you are capable of
stewarding a lot more money responsibly than you think you are. You need
to play a bigger game because you’re playing small.
Another way of saying it would be “If you had a private jet, you wouldn’t
waste it.” You wouldn’t fly to the caveman islands to go swimming. You
would use it for something worth the time, money, fuel, and pilot. Your time
can be that valuable. In all honesty—we need to wrap up here pretty quick—I
had a conversation with Richard Kush and he’s worth a quarter billion dollars
and he doesn’t own a jet. He was talking about one of his billionaire friends
that do own a jet. I was like “Hey Richard, you don’t need to fly coach or
whatever, come with me, you can ride with me.”
They go and they sit in the jet, there’s mechanical problem and finally after a
couple of hours, “Sorry, we can’t fix it,” So he and the billionaire three
minutes later, they’re in the line to buy a Ryan Air ticket which is the South
West Airlines of Europe. Truth be told, very few people actually earn enough
money and their time really is that valuable to where a private jet is actually a
good investment. There’s not very many of those around. The point was
“Perry, your time can be that valuable.” This is like a memo from the head
office. I’ve taken this real seriously. Everybody’s got different lies that they
believe about money. A lot of people do not handle money responsibly and
they need to learn to and you can.
I could probably start bantering and probably should focus it down and finish
up here. What if you got rid of the 10 biggest lies that you believe right now?
Whatever they’re about—relationships, God, sex, being a billionaire,
whatever. What if you got rid of the lies?
Dane: Yeah, Perry, I want to thank you for the extra time. I was milking every
minute that we could and I—please guys for those of you who are listening in
the audience. If you could find a way to send Perry a thank you, find a way to
let him know that spending an hour and a half here going to tens of
thousands of people, Perry, I’m hopeful that you’re going to hear some
positive feedback. I’ve got two pages of notes; I’ll put them in some sort of
summary. If you guys are interested in this kind of conversation—living in this
kind of world, living in this kind of reality, being in this kind of potentiality—
this is all possible through You can apply for our next
class at thefoundation.com4/apply.
Perry, what would you like to tell people?
Perry: If I just asked people to do one thing that’s going to help your life, go to and buy my book “80 20 Sales and Marketing.” You can buy it
for $7 in the US, $14 international. Buy that book and read it five times. I’m
serious, read the whole thing cover to cover five times and it will completely
change your marketing brain. There isn’t any other book that—one book that
would teach you as much as this book will teach you about sales and
marketing. I put 10 years of my life into that book; it will really pay off for
Closing: Thank you for joining us. We’ve taken this interview and created a custom
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